Orrin,
I appreciate your post here. Just a thought - a "Christian Soldier" is an oxymoron. The basis of true Christianity is as a pacifist. That is why Christ allowed himself to die on the cross, understanding that love from the Creator transcended any and all of the fear in this world. Remember - the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. There have been many well intended people at war through the ages - and it continues today. Have a great day!

Anon, Thanks for you thoughts. I do not believe that Christian and Soldier are oxymorons in anyway. One of the best loved songs is Onward Christian Soldiers and all Christians are soldiers in His army. Individually we will die to selves, but corporately we are called to defend the weak. Allowing evil people to rape, pillage, and steal while we sit idle calling ourselves Christian pacifist would be silly and cowardly. Soldiers and all other legitimate callings are sanctified to Christ work. thanks, Orrin

Thanks for your response. Just a thought. Pacifist does not imply sitting idle - Jesus was both a pacifist and a revolutionary - and very engaged with spreading the word of God. However, one thing that he did not do was do others harm on his journey. I'm sure that there were many, many instances of rape, pillaging, and stealing in his day, but I have yet to have heard of Jesus jumping into the fray, and physically defending and/or killing others to protect the weak. His message was quite different - and interestingly enough, still not understood by most of the people on this planet. As Einstein said, insanity is doing the same thing over and expecting different results. There is quite a bit of insanity at play on this planet. But of course, you cannot spell solve without love. Thanks!

Orrin,
I appreciate your post here. Just a thought - a "Christian Soldier" is an oxymoron. The basis of true Christianity is as a pacifist. That is why Christ allowed himself to die on the cross, understanding that love from the Creator transcended any and all of the fear in this world. Remember - the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. There have been many well intended people at war through the ages - and it continues today.

Christ “allowed” Himself to die on the cross because He was perfectly obedient to the Father. He knew that His death and Resurrection were the price to be paid for the reconciliation of God to mankind...NOT because He was a pacifist.

There is none of our impulses that [God’s] Moral Law may not sometimes tell us to suppress, and none that it may not tell us sometimes to encourage. It is a mistake to think that some of our impulses – say mother love or patriotism – and others, like sex or the fighting instinct, are bad. All we mean is that the occasions on which the fighting instinct or the sexual desire need to be restrained are rather more frequent than those for restraining mother love or patriotism, But there are situations in which it is the duty of the married man to encourage his sexual impulse and of the soldier to encourage the fighting instinct.

There are also occasions on which a mother’s love for her own children or a man’s love for his own country have to be suppressed or they will lead to unfairness towards other people’s children or countries. Strictly speaking, there are no such things as good or bad impulses. Think of a piano. It has not got two kinds of notes on it, the “right” notes and the “wrong” ones. Every single note is right at one time and wrong at another.

The Moral Law is not any one instinct or any set of instincts: it is something which makes a kind of tune (the tune we call “goodness” or “right conduct”) by directing the instincts.

C.S. Lewis – from ”Mere Christianity”

Thus "Christian Soldier" is no oxymoron, for there is much we fight against: some of it on a physical plain...and some on the spiritual one.

Pray for the wisdom to be able to properly discern your "right" and "wrong" responses.

Apologies in advance for this long post.

This is an interesting topic. The initiator posits that we should ideally do or not do those things that Jesus did or did not do. In general, I agree with the sentiment, Christians should model their lives on how Jesus lived.

But Jesus was not faced with every possible situation that Christians face. The Bible does not recount him dealing with a home invasion, or discussing the tyrant two countries over torturing and killing innocent people. So we have to rely on interpreting his words and actions.

In John 15, Jesus was explaining why no man can be saved except through Him. This is the "I am the vine, you are the branches" parable. In verses 12-13, He says "This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." He was foretelling His crucifixion, of course. To truly follow Jesus's example, once you were aware of a situation where your friends were in danger, you are in fact Commanded to intercede, even at the risk of your life.

Paul's Letter to the Romans, Chapter 13 is pretty strong, too. Paul is counselling that the faithful submit to authorities. Why? "For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil." Now, why would Paul, who was divinely converted on the road to Damascas, speak so well of the civil authorities? It seems to me that he knew that pure pacifism was no match for the truly evil that exist in the world. That evil might be next door, or half a world away. The Christian Soldier does hear his brother's blood crying out from the ground, whereever that may be, and is motivated by justice to put things right.

One last response: There is one famous example of Jesus physically harming other people - when He drove the money-changers out of the temple. "And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables" (John 2:15) You don't make a scourge to move cattle, you use it to move people on their way. Jesus was Temple Cop. Now, today, they would call His actions Police Brutality.

Now, for some points of my own, not raised by the thread participants.

Many counsel pacifism, or at most, strongly worded statements instead of military engagement in far-flung regions of the world. They have "Coexist" bumper stickers on their cars, next to "Free Tibet" and "Free Dafur". All well and good, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But the Chinese are still murdering the Tibetans, and the genocide in Dafur continiues. Now what? If one are so adamant about freeing these people, then you must, at some point, agree to a military solution, or else be false to your cause. Evil oppressors will continue to oppress. They laugh at the self-gelding protestors. They cannot be reasoned with - they must be stopped.

The Geneva Convention, to which most on the Left genuflect, is nothing more than the embodiment of the conventions of limited war as generally agreed upon during the centuries of European wars. What general set of moral principles guided those nations to limit warfare? Judeo-Christian ones.

"Just war" is a difficult concept when applied against real world conflicts. The Christian Soldier, as opposed to, oh, an Aztec warrior, or a samurai, is guided by some pretty clear things: humane treatment of prisoners, offering quarter when defeat is evident, no intentional targetting of non-combatants. The power of war is calibrated. The least amount of force necessary for a purpose is used. This is most often shown in the breach: My Lai was a war crime because non-combatants were slaughtered, in violation of Christian principles. The firebombing of Dresden is highly controversial for this reason as well.

From the policeman on the corner to the Commander in Chief, evaluation of the threat, whether to use force, and if so, how much, are their basic jobs in life. You had best hope they have a strong moral foundation, and that those morals are informed by the teachings of Christ. They are, after all, standing between you and the evil, amoral threats that wish to wipe you out.

From the policeman on the corner to the Commander in Chief, evaluation of the threat, whether to use force, and if so, how much, are their basic jobs in life. You had best hope they have a strong moral foundation, and that those morals are informed by the teachings of Christ. They are, after all, standing between you and the evil, amoral threats that wish to wipe you out.

They seem to have a strong, subjective moral foundation, BtCG (funny, I frequently carpool with a guy who sounds just like you). They especially like to moralize on being Green, reducing one’s Carbon Footprint and about the moral right of a woman to choose murder as an option when faced with a lifestyle inconvenience (wiping out, so to speak the “footprint” of human life).

Thus their relativistic ramblings are juxtaposed against the expediency of the issue de jour…with reverse logic applying the next day if need be. They cry for human rights because it’s a popular soapbox…without acknowledging the right of a human to be.

What then is their objective standard? Their authority? Their metric. The sad answer is: Themselves…as in “We are the ones we’ve been waiting for.”

If chance be
the Father of all flesh,
disaster is his rainbow in the sky
and when you hear

----State of Emergency!

----Sniper Kills Ten!

----Troops on Rampage!

----Whites go Looting!

----Bomb Blasts School!

It is but the sound of man worshipping his maker.
--from The Atheist’s Creed

Moralizing without a vertical point of reference for morality; a.k.a. Humanism.

Hi Orrin,
We received our monthly copy of Imprimus from Hillsdale College, one of the few colleges that does not accept government funding. They have recently dedicated two new statues on their campus in Jackson MI, Thomas Jefferson and Abraham Lincoln. I have attached the link for the dedication speeches made this spring. Happy Fourth.
Granny
http://www.hillsdale.edu/news/imprimis.asp

I thought you might like this.

http://www.cooperativeindividualism.org/adams_john_american_revolution.html

Thank you!!! I did not know the whole history about the National Anthem. I am amazed that I have never heard this before now. I wish they would teach true history in school. I can’t wait to learn more I don’t know. Thanks again.

TEARS! And Gratitude! It is difficult for me, at times, to express in words or should I say "on paper", my heart. I watch this and I think of Our Country and ALL of Its' History. And I can't help but think of another country--Iraq. I know many people disagree and are angry. (I am usually the only one with "my opinion" in the crowd. It has always been that way, it seems.)

But how grateful I am that "France" came and helped us in the "Revoutionary War". That they didn't leave us after some of their soldiers lives were sacrifiiced. Where would this Country be today? Or should I say, "What would this Country be today?".

Which brings me to the "War of 1812". I often think the reason WE won is because WE had the Taste of Freedom and NO ONE was going to take it from US! DO YOU WANT to defeat Evil,etc.? HELP THE IRAQI PEOPLE (AND OTHERS IN THE REGION) GAIN FREEDOM & Those who Attacked Us and who are really only concerned for their own agenda will have no where to hide or run to. Remember the quote, "For Evil to Prevail, is for Good Men to do Nothing." I believe Pres Bush knew and believed that also.

Another thought comes to mind-The Civil War. April 9, 1865. When this Country became...."THE United States of America". When WE truly became ONE NATION. People can bicker and argue over what The War was all about...but I see it one way...it doesn't matter to me what was in the hearts of others, their motives, etc...GOD CREATED THIS COUNTRY FROM THE BEGINNING! For HIS PURPOSES! (Remember WW1 & WW2?)

Another Day--April 9, 2002-Iraq-(Notice the date) The Troops coming into the city and the Iraqi People pulling down that statue of Saddam!!! (I remember the day/date so clearly and well because its' my birthday, not because I have such an excellent memory!!!). Maybe GOD has a purpose there...? I don't know everything, but I do wonder. What if Freedom comes to them as it did for us?
How can WE Who Know What Freedom Is Stand By While Others Are Being Denied Just Decent Basic Human Treatment! I heard a story where Pres Bush asked some Iraqis who had lived there, BEFORE he decided to send troops, "Is it really as bad as I hear?", and they told him, "Its Worse".

Many may disagree with me, but I trully believe that GOD gave us a Godly man for 8 years and as a Nation, we "spit on Him", so GOD has given "Us" what "We've" ask for.

My parents taught us to stand up for what we believed in and to do the right thing, even if no one else would or agreed with us. If I am proven wrong or GOD changes my changes my heart, then I will not back down or apologize for it, but not until then. BUT, I will and do respect for you to have your opinion even if it differs from mine. And I will defend for you to have it!

Sorry Orrin, If I've said too much, but its just something that is on my heart and after the video, it was even stronger. How much I appreciate Our Freedom. I feel so strong that so many don't really understand what it took to get it. Freedom is Costly. I cry everytime I hear of another Soldier's Sacrifice. Especially the Ultimate One...I cry when I read stories of past Sacrifices that Others have made. I don't take it lightly. Maybe its because I was in the Air Force (and Proud of it) that these things do touch my heart so...

TO ALL...
May God Shower With His Love And Blessings,
Bobbi Biggs
Prov. 3:5-6

God bless America!