Fire it up!!!!!!!!! I can't wait till Friday night in mpls for this great man Dallin Larsen. I will on the berry and frie up

That was awsome, Aman!!! I can't wait to see Dallin Larsen and the rest of the Team Az... I remember when my group came Team almost yr ago... I knew when we joining Team we were in for something great.. I never been prouder and so a LIVE helping others. I always knew God had pland for me. I'm very bless also greatful being part of Team and Monavie Family. Now having two sides working together for the commen good. prise the Lord, God Bless

Orrin, thanks for posting this great video of Dallin! The more I hear Dallin speak the more I know that he is the right man and Mona Vie is the right company to have partnered with! I love that Dallin talks about being humble and how blessed we are by God! He always wears his heart on his sleeve and I can tell that he cares more about benefiting others through God's help than benefitting himself.

Looking forward to seeing you and Dallin on Minneaplis on 6/27.
-Ben

Orrin,

You say you are a man of faith. As a Christian myself who attended a seminary with Reformed Theology roots I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and take you at your word. However, as a Christian man I'm also disappointed that your most recent posts, including this one, have had a strong undertone of trying to demean indirectly (almost in a passive aggressive way) Amway and its leaders. (Does anyone really not understand who you are talking about when you talk about "Selling America" the the "2nd Generation?")

If you want to talk about MonaVie, talk about MonaVie. But must you always drag Amway and its leaders into your discussion? It appears you now do in print what you found reprehensible in Amway's behavior just six months ago. Can't your discussions about MonaVie stand alone on their own? Do they always need to be held aloft by connecting them through slights and innuendo to past issues with Amway? In all candor, I don't believe your current approach is one Christ would find winsome or helpful, nor one He would approve of. It appears to serve little purpose except for perhaps satisfying an apparent weakness in your own character -- and Orrin, I really believe you are a better man than all of this.

I honestly believe you would be well served to read the first chapter in Timothy Keller's new book (also a NYT bestseller) The Reason for God: Belief in an Age of Skepticism. It the opening chapter to the book Keller speaks to how we can best create an environment that leads to dialogue instead of confrontation and conflict.

Take care lest your own pride lead to a fall.

Chuck, I agree with much of what you say. I do not have hatred in my heart for any of the people on the Amway side. I will gladly take down any and all references to them (I would love to make the past the past), but to have the remaining IBOAI Board have the cowardice to sue their fellow board members when they know we are right (and admitted it to me) is really irritating. To have Amway "fire" and place a TRO on our right to make an income is shameful. To do the TRO on us forbidding us from talking and then write garbage about the Team and me is unconscionable. Amway continues to sue and their is not one Christian left in the company with the courage to say stop and settle this for all? I can and will do my part, but if they continue the war then I will attack their poor principles, but not them. Doug and Steve both need to learn that money is only a measurement of how well you served people. The tens of thousand who left them and continue to leave must be accepted as an edict of their unwillingness to serve the customers needs. If I can help them learn the process of free enterprise then I have helped them. Chuck, please point out where I called anyone a Mis-Leader or having no credibility or calling a liar? Amway did this and more! No, I don't attack the people, but I will and always have assaulted poor thinking. Poor thinking is fatal to a person's success and in my opinion the thinking of Amway leaders is at an all-time low. I do have the right to speak my opinion and am not forbidden to in the Bible. Jesus called hypocrites "Whitewashed wall while rotting on the inside." Any company that can claim you own your own business, but change the name, the compensation plan, add non-competition clauses - all without our input or agreement - is not free enterprise and not "your own business". Chuck, If you speak for Amway then tell them peace takes two sides. I can speak for our side - we have asked for a peaceful settlement on August 9th and have offered peace directly to Doug Devos on a nearly monthly basis since. If he doesn't accept it, then you are speaking to the wrong person about Christian conduct. Any and all the damage to both sides will be laid on Doug's shoulders for not following Biblical precepts of sitting down with your fellow Christian brother and resolving. I cannot sit down with Doug when he refuses a Christian peace. thanks, Orrin

Orrin,

First of all, I don't speak for Amway. Truth is, in some (but not all) Amway circles I am persona non grata because of my blog and some of my positions on certain issues. If you've followed my "Speaking of Amway" blog you would know I have been quite critical of many aspects of Amway's behavior, including the majority of the things you mentioned in your response. Orrin, I did not say anything nor take a position about the truth or falsehood of the actual content or points of your recent postings. I am simply trying to say that regardless of how poorly Amway and its leadership (Doug, Steve, Jim P.) may have acted or how critically you perceive their actions, does it really serve your interests to continue drawing Amway into your posts?

I personally am incredibly disappointed with the way Amway has handed many aspects of its business of late. And, like you, I wish they would end much of this nonsense. I agree it takes two to achieve peace. However, Orrin, unlike Christ, you do not know with certainty the personal motives behind the actions of Doug (or Steve for that matter). They may in fact be wrong. They might just be tremendously misguided. They may truly believe they are in the right pursuing the matter the way they are. I honestly don't know, but it wouldn't be the first time two Christians had an honest disagreement about substantive issues, wouldn't you agree?

Regardless, you and I both know God is not asleep at the wheel. He is sovereign over every aspect of life and He has a plan and purpose even for this sad and unfortunate situation. Thus I am confident you can rest in and trust in Him rather than feeling the need to continue to justify and express your opinion, particularly now that you are involved with another company -- and I personally believe it will serve your long-term interests better. Even Christ, when faced with a matter far more important than yours, didn't defend himself or revile those in opposition to Him -- and they wanted to kill Him.

I admit, I may be wrong and somewhat or completely misguided, even naive, about the issues involved. Regardless, I do appreciate your response Orrin.

Chuck, Thank you for your comments. I promise in the future to stick with the issues and not come close to the line of attacking people. I don't enjoy that role anyway. I do appreciate your thoughts and believe there is valid wisdom in them. I strongly believe that iron sharpens iron and Christians should dialogue on issues to learn from each other. You have helped me today and hopefully I can help you in the future. If Doug would have an honest dialogue then I believe we could settle this for many people's sake. Refusing to discuss in a Christian dialogue by seeking first to understand is where this process has failed. Like I said, I cannot make them come to the table and discuss, but will never give in on a matter of principle unless they can show I am mistaken. I pray everyday for wisdom to do right and for God to overrule all of our personal agendas to further His agenda. Have a blessed Sunday! thanks, Orrin

This was great dialog! You both handle yourselfs with maturity and courtisy. Great read!

Thanks. I have no problem with discussing issues regarding products, pricing, and issues like that. Nor with business competition specifics. That's fine. However, I do have a problem with the personal attacks, even the well disguised or subtle ones, and I hope we can move past that. Like you, I do wish there was a more simple way to resolve the situation, but alas, that may not be the case right now.

Hello Chuck... Hello Orrin...
I, too, will say bravo on the way you two dialogued. I was excited to see how Orrin would respond and was blessed to see him take the "low" road and apply the bibles admonition to "seek peace and pursue it," and I am applying that to his responce to Chuck. Amway is going to do what Amway is going to do. They make peoples life miserable because they can... and do... and will. If they focused on their product line and promoting their business, the money they spend on their legal teams salaries wouldn't be necessary. If they applied the words of Christ we wouldn't be having this "conversation." I know I read in the bible were Paul and Barnabas "had no small contention" when they "discussed" John Mark and his "defecting" from the mission field. Did they apply the words of Christ? Perhaps after they had some time to cool off. Paul went in one direction with Silas and Barnabas went the other with his nephew, John Mark.

Personally, I appreciate Orrin's orr-ations of what happened and what's up. It is his opinion and, I believe, his responsibilty to inform others as to his experiences and, therefore, others may press on knowing they heard his first hand account of the situation since he was personally involved. If I was the one making all the comments then it would be third/fourth/fifth party information and would need to stop.

Thanks Orrrin for sharing all you have. I believe there are those who "tune in" to read these postings who are still a part of Amway/Quixtar (A/Q) and may get the information they should get and know. It's my opinion that A/Q will be judged by God for what they are doing and how they are doing it. They are accountable to God for what they are doing, as was King Saul when he chased David all over the desert. The Lord used the Philistines to bring Saul to a place where he "fell on his sword" and died.

Perhaps A/Q will repent alla the King of Nineveh. Jonah wished to see them destroyed, but they repented and the Lord relented. I believe He desires A/Q to repent as well. Repentance is something we can all practice daily. (Pastor Dickie's message on Repentance In Feb. was great. Next time lets have an altar call! :) That would be awesome!)

I desire to see all parties repent and leave it all at the cross and just press on in peace. There are so many hurting people out there, in and out of the business, who could be so blessed by the money spent on legal fees and processes. What a waste of time and money and what a bad witness. I will continue to pray for all praties involved and that the conviction Holy Spirit brings will be heeded.

It seems to me that perhaps Orrin is the "iron" that the Lord is using to expose Q/A and their shortcomings. We shouldn't judge them but love and pray for them. They can sue me if they like. There's nothing to give them but a smile, a hand shake, and lots of prayers. If they want my shirt I will gladly give it. The Lord will provide another.

Thanks again Orrin for your comments and I'm sure it's a challenge to articulate your thoughts in this forum without complete BBQ-ing someone @ A/Q.

A/Q will continue to "defend" themselves because they feel they need to. They need to just let it go.

I must close. My time is up.

God bless all of you.

Jesus is coming soon. Watching and reading all this nonsense brings to mind what Paul wrote in his epistles about the conduct of those who profess to be "Christians."

Look up folks our deliverance draweth nigh.

Love you brothers...

In His grip, (John 10)
Apprentice
Ephesians 1:15-23

Wow Dallin is definetely worthy of Team's respect! Listening to him reminds me of the excitement of getting to hear Orrin speak! So wow! Can't wait for Ohio! I'm so sharing this video with everyone I know!

Plus, I'm thankful we have leaders with some fight in them. Sheep dog's have teeth and a growl that the sheep may not like, but that is what makes them so cool. I'm not knocking the nice guys out there. I'm merely sharing my appreciation for all the men out there not afraid to be a little gruff and aren't "nice" all the time.

I'm thankful Orrin is the tough hero type, not afraid to show his rough and tumble side in public. He is a sheep dog all the way!

I am pleased to see our leaders and the people that have responded to this blog in the last couple days show what it means to Dialoge with such Christ like behaviour..It show what God is Bringing together..Men of Integrity...I love your response Orrin..I can wait to talk with you on a personnel level when we reach black diamond....and I know you have thought of this ..think of what a blessing it will be to have a depressed economicaly speaking , state like michigan to become a Blessing to god thru an OPPERTUNITY LIKE MONAVIE !! and the team traing system..Bringing in the generation of leaders that will will be " FOUND DOING A GOOD THING WHEN HE/CHRIST RETURNS....PRAISE GOD and thanks Orrin ,chris and all the leaders for FIGHTING THE GOOD FIGHT!! ray&chris lenardson ...THE TITANS ON THE TEAM.....FIRED UP !!!

Too many people in the past have been devastated by problems that were not handled properly and fairly by Amway. From huge problems to the small problems. People were forced to turn and walk away from their hopes and dreams and all the hardwork it takes in MLM/Direct Marketing and go bankrupt just because A/Q was too big of a giant for them to fight against!! The truth needs to be told....and continue to be told, until Amway owners are ready to do the right thing!! If they don't want to do the right thing....by letting people go....and I also believe restitution is in order.... then to be silent would be wrong in my humble opinion! Amway has devastated families out there who are still dealing with the aftermath of Amway Legal. I have read one book, inpaticularly, that while I was in Q for 6 years we were told "not to read this kind of negative!" And now I feel disappointed that I contributed to Master, and hurt the freedom fighter, by not using my own brain and common sense. I also feel ashamed of "belonging" to a company who could hurt people in such a cruel way! Orrin is a voice for those hurting people!! We are behind you 100% Orrin! Maybe Chuck needs to go back and read some of the history lessons that Orrin has researched for us!! When has being silent secured our freedom ever against tyranny??? Religion and Christianity are two different things with two different agendas!! Do you know what I am saying here??? Keep pressing in Orrin.....let's keep shining the light into the darkness!!! Stay strong Orrin.....you are doing the right thing!!!