Orrin, this is why you are such a great leader. You read and read and read, and study and study and study and apply and apply and apply. This is such great insight. Thanks for posting this from Grudin & Stoltz. Pleasure is only success when first pain is achieved. To bad some of us have to learn this the hard way, but learning it is better than not learning it. I really don't know how people can think they can achieve success of any type and in any manner without having pain of risk, sorrow, failure, mental stress, financial stress, all that is associated with great success in all walks of life. The 3 levels of mountain climbing - WOW, what can I say or anyone say. One either has to face the truth about themselves or lie dormant the rest of their lives. We are not quitters, never have been. Husband was a police officer long time ago, almost lost his life and use of his legs. Through persistence, he was able to walk again, with a limp, lost some nerve in lower back, so left leg ain't so good, but he now rides bike again. took many years of talking him into that, but he sure is happy now riding. I had open heart surgery when I was a child, hard to keep me down. Still hard to keep me down. So Quitters, we're not. Campers, have to say with shame yes. We have been climbers, but at times we have fallen backwards to a Camper position. It seems to be a very easy place to stay. That comfort zone thing. We continue to strive and continue to climb. With God's help, we will Climb to the top of the mountain and bring others with us. That will take a lot of strength and courage, and going through disappointments, and struggles, but we must Win if we want to hold our heads up high and account for something; know that our strength and courage gave hope to others and the courage to go forward and make it to the top of the mountain to Pay It Forward as in the movie. That which you, Laurie, Chris and Terri, and all the great leaders of TEAM are doing. We are so appreciative and greatful to you all! God Bless Dave / Francine Glendale, Az