Anon, Run the numbers with what you said and also add the other countries that are new since 1997. This should not be so hard. Is Amway's existing markets growing or not? Don't give me the sales have increased line when you can say that if they increase one dollar! If one market collapses 100 million and 10 markets increase 100 dollars then it reads 10 out of 11 markets have increase! When actually you have lost nearly a 100 million in sales. Great job on getting the sales figures. Let's work together and identify all the new countries since 1997 taking into account the retail to wholesale change, exchange rates, etc and let's see if Amway pre-existing markets are growing or not. We don't need to get upset or attack anyone here. Let the cold hard data speak. Is that fair? Why is this information like searching for a needle in a haystack. It seems a growing company would want to broadcast this to the world! thanks, Orrin