Funny, the June 2008 Amway Australia Because Magazine lists 33 new Silver Producers - all from Australia, none from NZ. Nice cherry picking to just go with the "honour roll" list from one month. It reflects reporting, not qualifiers. Heck I believe even Silver Producers only show up in the Amagram if the upline reports them. I'd also point out that nearly half of all Australian's were either born overseas themselves or had one parent born overseas. Your comment about the new downline going home and quitting after googling supports my assertion - the major "difference" between english and non-english speaking groups is "the negative" on the internet. What I find astounding about your post is that in the very same post you simultaneously claim the model doesn't work while at the same time decrying the fact that people have introduced a new model (thanks primarily to Orrin, incidentally). I'd suggest the "model" problem is the idea it's a shopping club, something you obviously promote with your "can't do 100PV yourself" comment. As I outlined yesterday on this post on another site, the buying club model means you need *more* product education than in a retail-first model. In reality, as that model became more popular both the corp and systems reduced product training. Why the heck would folk by Tolsom without knowing why it's priced above the traditional brands. (incidentally there are many more expensive shaving products on the market).