Dave, I think Matt in his passion may have named names, but the point is valid. If leaders do not continue to grow and learn they will fallback mentally and in influence. There is no staying the same in leadership - you are either growing or shrinking. Many of the old leaders became to confident that they had all the answers. I hate the term expert because and expert has all the answers and we are really all students attempting to learn everyday. You both have valid points so learn from each other and encourage one another. We must encourage poor leadership to change and that is what I took from Matt's excellent post. thanks, Orrin