David Fightback, I will keep your post above on this site for one week. At that point I will delete if you do not have the integrity to state what group you are in, what pin level you are and what amount of income you are and have made in your beloved Amway business over the last 5 years. Someone who won't even enter the dialogue with their true identity should not attack another anonymous poster. You will not be sued by Amway for defending them so why not reveal your incredible durable results to prove the rest of the leaders who have fallen back are not using your audacious techniques? To produce a durable income and defend Amway wolrdwide is a story the rest of us desire to dialogue on. Your identity please or you have chosen to remove yourself from the conversations based upon facts and truth. Do not tell me your identity doesn't matter when we both know the truth. No more anecdotal - I have groups growing - I have leaders making money and all the other words that seem more like meaningless spew without confirmation. thanks in advance for your integrity! , Orrin